This page is a permanent archive of the comment below and its replies.
To view this comment in the context of the full discussion for the story, use this link.
((And it's good for vote-hungry presidential hopefuls. Iowa is a key state in the presidential-nomination sweepstakes, and we all know what they grow in Iowa. Sen. Clinton voted against ethanol 17 times until she started running for president. Coincidence?))
The Brazilian model of ethanol production from sugar is actually more efficient than current corn based systems. If I understand all this, corn is starch and less efficient to produce alcohol than sugar, which is closer chemically to alcohol.
Sugar can be produced in warm states from cane and in the midwest and west from sugar beets. But this doesn't buy Ms Slick any votes in Iowa, does it?
The problem with ethanol I'm told is that the hype is much better than the product. It costs a great deal of water and fuel to harvest the corn, which might be better fed to hogs, then use their methane to power your vehicle.
It's good for Iowa perhaps but perhaps not for the rest of the nation. My old Chevy Pickup gets almost 30 miles to the gallon, has 2-60 air conditioning, and armstrong steering. It doesn't have any of the polution devices we absolutely have to have, yet it tests better than new ones. It has 2-60 air conditioning because when you want air conditioning you roll down two windows and drive 60. Armstrong steering...no power steering. You only need strong arms when you're stopped. Other than that you don't notice the difference. Its a 1952 chevy 1/2 ton 6, best engine I think chevy ever made...ruggged and solid as a rock!
I'm a professional chef and I can tell you that everything that has to do with corn (from oil to beef) is taking a big jump in price since this Ethanol frenzy started.
To make it short and simple: ethanol has just barely enough energy per pound as a combustion fuel to make it worth producing out of an agricultural crop - IF there's no transportation from where you make it to where you use it. If you have to transport it, it's not worth using. Put simply, it's a bust. That being said, it's a bad path with good intentions behind it. Oh, wait, that had something to do with a hot place at a low elevation...
Anyway, there's some guys in Philly (last I heard) that were doing process research on a high temp/high pressure process for converting organic scrap materials (chicken/beef intestines, from slaughterhouses, plant material etc.) into an oil product almost like fuel oil with methane as a byproduct that can be recycled to run the process. If there's a product/process worth dumping public money into, that's probably it. They can probably make it on their own, though, from what little I've heard. Check it out if you're interested.
Now you are on the right track. Ethanol and biodiesel work only when they can be used locally, and the by-products used as well.
For instance, If I am farming a lot of corn, which I sell to the local ethanol plant, which sells all of its product for local vehicles, the distillers grain wet to the hog operation down the road, which produces methane from the manure, which it sells to the ethanol plant for fuel, and the processed manure from the mathane tanks to me for fertilizer - then my friends, we have a big winner, ecologically and economically.
Ethanol has one more problem not mentioned in the article. In small engines (lawnmowers, snowblowers, etc) where gas can sit for 6 months it will harden and destroy the gaskets and make the engine fail.
Ethanol is BAD, add that to the MTBE that they add to the gas around here and I get 3 Miles to the Gallon Less.
Lets add that up, the Government get tax off every gallon, they cause the gas to be less productive, so they get more taxes. These guys ain't dumb after all. Vote them all out of office!!
Using sugar cane to make ethanol is a waste - unless you're making rum. ;-)
Seriously, we should be finding ways to kick the oil habit, if for no other reason than the unreliabilty of its sources. And, as mentioned below, alternative fuel development could be a huge shot in the arm for the economy
The local Denver news did a story on ethanol and the Coors Brewing company in Golden Colorado. Apparently they built an ethanol plant 2 years ago to turn what they used to haul to the dump into ethanol. They produced 3 million gallons last year and doubled their capacity this year to an expected 6 million. What's sad is that's just a drop in the bucket for what is needed just in the front range area.
I bought my wife a flex fuel van in 2000 and we couldn't even get ethanol until just this past year. The fuel efficiancy is 15% less than when we run it on regular and the cost is 15% less. It's a wash but we aren't contributing to the mid east problems.
I bought a Compressed Natural Gas (CNG)/bi-fuel (runs on regular as well) '98 Contour for myself to comute in because I drive 110 miles a day. I put 120,000 miles on it in 3 years and just bought a 2003 CNG/Bi-Fuel Cavalier to replace it. I get the same milage and get this I pay $1.04 a gallon, there's an alternative for you...
Send this story to your state congressman and federal congressman. Add the fact that solar cell cost 20 years of energy to make, they don't last 20 years so they are a loss. Ignorance is the global warming problem and it starts with our government, except for one time it seems Bush has the right idea.
Good read. Vintage Stossel.
((And it's good for vote-hungry presidential hopefuls. Iowa is a key state in the presidential-nomination sweepstakes, and we all know what they grow in Iowa. Sen. Clinton voted against ethanol 17 times until she started running for president. Coincidence?))
Of course it is! ;-)
The Brazilian model of ethanol production from sugar is actually more efficient than current corn based systems. If I understand all this, corn is starch and less efficient to produce alcohol than sugar, which is closer chemically to alcohol.
Sugar can be produced in warm states from cane and in the midwest and west from sugar beets. But this doesn't buy Ms Slick any votes in Iowa, does it?
The problem with ethanol I'm told is that the hype is much better than the product. It costs a great deal of water and fuel to harvest the corn, which might be better fed to hogs, then use their methane to power your vehicle.
It's good for Iowa perhaps but perhaps not for the rest of the nation. My old Chevy Pickup gets almost 30 miles to the gallon, has 2-60 air conditioning, and armstrong steering. It doesn't have any of the polution devices we absolutely have to have, yet it tests better than new ones. It has 2-60 air conditioning because when you want air conditioning you roll down two windows and drive 60. Armstrong steering...no power steering. You only need strong arms when you're stopped. Other than that you don't notice the difference. Its a 1952 chevy 1/2 ton 6, best engine I think chevy ever made...ruggged and solid as a rock!
you are right has any body else noticed the prices of corn byproducts and meats going up in price even taco shells went up that is pathetic
I'm a professional chef and I can tell you that everything that has to do with corn (from oil to beef) is taking a big jump in price since this Ethanol frenzy started.
It may have more to do with the increase in oil pricing to transport produce across the country.
To make it short and simple: ethanol has just barely enough energy per pound as a combustion fuel to make it worth producing out of an agricultural crop - IF there's no transportation from where you make it to where you use it. If you have to transport it, it's not worth using. Put simply, it's a bust. That being said, it's a bad path with good intentions behind it. Oh, wait, that had something to do with a hot place at a low elevation...
Anyway, there's some guys in Philly (last I heard) that were doing process research on a high temp/high pressure process for converting organic scrap materials (chicken/beef intestines, from slaughterhouses, plant material etc.) into an oil product almost like fuel oil with methane as a byproduct that can be recycled to run the process. If there's a product/process worth dumping public money into, that's probably it. They can probably make it on their own, though, from what little I've heard. Check it out if you're interested.
Now you are on the right track. Ethanol and biodiesel work only when they can be used locally, and the by-products used as well.
For instance, If I am farming a lot of corn, which I sell to the local ethanol plant, which sells all of its product for local vehicles, the distillers grain wet to the hog operation down the road, which produces methane from the manure, which it sells to the ethanol plant for fuel, and the processed manure from the mathane tanks to me for fertilizer - then my friends, we have a big winner, ecologically and economically.
Ethanol has one more problem not mentioned in the article. In small engines (lawnmowers, snowblowers, etc) where gas can sit for 6 months it will harden and destroy the gaskets and make the engine fail.
Ethanol is BAD, add that to the MTBE that they add to the gas around here and I get 3 Miles to the Gallon Less.
Lets add that up, the Government get tax off every gallon, they cause the gas to be less productive, so they get more taxes. These guys ain't dumb after all. Vote them all out of office!!
IF there's no transportation from where you make it to where you use it. If you have to transport it, it's not worth using.
Maybe the beauty behind it would be that local state farming would benefit instead of just the corporate farming in Iowa.
Seems to me that this article couldn't be better written if the Oil Execs had written it themselves....maybe they did.
Using sugar cane to make ethanol is a waste - unless you're making rum. ;-)
Seriously, we should be finding ways to kick the oil habit, if for no other reason than the unreliabilty of its sources. And, as mentioned below, alternative fuel development could be a huge shot in the arm for the economy
It wortks for Brazil.
The local Denver news did a story on ethanol and the Coors Brewing company in Golden Colorado. Apparently they built an ethanol plant 2 years ago to turn what they used to haul to the dump into ethanol. They produced 3 million gallons last year and doubled their capacity this year to an expected 6 million. What's sad is that's just a drop in the bucket for what is needed just in the front range area.
I bought my wife a flex fuel van in 2000 and we couldn't even get ethanol until just this past year. The fuel efficiancy is 15% less than when we run it on regular and the cost is 15% less. It's a wash but we aren't contributing to the mid east problems.
I bought a Compressed Natural Gas (CNG)/bi-fuel (runs on regular as well) '98 Contour for myself to comute in because I drive 110 miles a day. I put 120,000 miles on it in 3 years and just bought a 2003 CNG/Bi-Fuel Cavalier to replace it. I get the same milage and get this I pay $1.04 a gallon, there's an alternative for you...
Have you priced sugar lately? The problem is we can not grow enough food and energy to take care of our needs. So do you want to drive or eat?
There is nothing as cheap as oil as a transportable fuel and that is why it is king.
Send this story to your state congressman and federal congressman. Add the fact that solar cell cost 20 years of energy to make, they don't last 20 years so they are a loss. Ignorance is the global warming problem and it starts with our government, except for one time it seems Bush has the right idea.